First of all I have no idea what you are trying to say and second of a all I don't think you understand my point.
Humes Quilotine is always right.
It is deductive thinking.

Well I have no idea where are we right now on this or what are we trying to say so lets just bury thse thoughts over here unless you find a way to make it simple.


Nietzsche had a moustache, unlike me.
But seriously, most of the time things aren't done in the first place because of the disapproval of family, friends, neighbours and such. The bad conscience comes later, after having done something immoral (at least in my case).
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Nietzsche did have great moustache He sure did...
If you would have bad cnoiscience every time you broke some rule of the bible it would be quite often. So IF bible is the word of god then it has nothing to do with morale and conscience. IF it is not then you just don't take the whole bible as a code to follow.


As I said, it's a lead up. Nowadays people like you are idealistic, and believe it can be done without violence. But it's impossible without violence. Come to think of it, it's even impossible with using violence. I'm sorry if you understood from me that you're a yet undiscovered mass murderer.
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Usually it's the other way around. Atheists don't have zeal. And wasn't the inquisition a kind of a counter for this.


Again, I'm not accusing you of being willing to take many lives. I think this whole new proscecution thing will be a process of many years, but not too many years.
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So we should keep on to what we have to prevent any possible violent revolution of religion?
Well things are changed and I don't believe in this kind of persecution. Who would it serve?
Just the people who don't like religious people. I can't see any political goals in this kind of thinking. On the other hand spreading or using a religion to control people has been know to be violen at times in certain cases.


It's not just a way of life in connection to other people, first of all it's a way of life in relation with God. And this never gets outdated.[/quote]
Or does it?
Why does God think our way of life is what he wants us to do?
Why does he like some people better?
Why are the teachings in the bible so outdated if the religion itself doesn't need to change?

BTW Nietzsche believed people only use Christianity to make their sorrow and pain disappear just like with using alcohol. He believed that covering your real problems that cause the pain and sorrow won't remove the problem. If we don't feel failure we don't try to change our ways to the better.
He thought the New Testament is the worst. It just gives hope to everyone and has a nice hopeful part for each and everyone looking for it. For example if you are poor and read that "it is easier for a camel to go throught the eye of a needle than for a rich man to reach the kingdom of god" so you just think "I am poor so at least I will have a good afterlife" and then you won't do anything to being poor.

I have a new set of questions for you




Well I will ask some more after we get on with these.

1. What is your opinnion on all the terrible things done in the name of Christianity (Sure most of these are from catholic point of view but that doesn't mean you can't have an opinnion on them)
For Example
A) Crusades
An excuse to gain more area to control
B) Conquistadors destroyin "pagans"
Bloody Spaniards
C) Inquisition
One of the worst ideas by the roman catholic church ever
D) Catholic Church did and said nothing during the holocaust and remained neutral
Outrageous, but understandable. The Vatican can be found in Italy, which was kinda under German
Control.

and yes I am going a bit out of the subject but:
2. What do you think about morale? What is it based on?
It's the rules made by the conscience

3. What do you think a good life has?
No idea... metal?

4. What is your opinnion on Reformation?
You mean the one started by Martin Luther? Thumbs up.
Just for your information, I'm protestant, and protestantism can't be compared to roman catholicism. The essence is way
different than the RC one.

Oh and my arts history teahcer just said the other day that the Medici family actually made a pirate the pope in the renaissance times with just pure gold.


So you think we have kind of a "built in" morale?
and our Inner voice (in the form of conscience for example) tells us what is right?



Calvinist or Lutheran direction?
I do think Luther was very much right in many many things.
He had good anti-catholicism arguments too.

Lutheran Church is something I very deeply respect in many ways.

Well, if it's built in I don't know. I think it's more a thing that every person develops, except for a few exceptions (these exceptions become psychopaths later).

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Mostly Calvinist, but Luther was right in many ways. He just never got rid of some catholic elements, but I believe that his arguments against catholicism are good.
But I understand Calvinism is generally considered as something bad. Maybe in my case, I have the advantage that I never went to a church, so I live more near to the core. I've read some books by Calvin, it's strange to see how lots of churches call themselves Calvinist but don't even come close to what he had to say.

Well if am not horribly mistaken Zwingli did many thing right but Calvin came and messed some of the things up.
For example he thought the Old Testament is important considering Christianity.



So Morale is subjective?

Of course the OT is important, it contains the Ten Commandments. Just because Jesus means salvation now, doesn't mean you can break that law now. I don't know about Zwingli, I'll look things up.


Well, maybe to some extent. It's really basic, for example you know that murder, rape, thievery and such aren't allowed.

Yes but it also has 90% of all the crap said in the bible.
It has so many terrible things in it that it by no means should ever be read by children.
It also has laws that contradict what people think as the true message of christianity.
The stories are wild mythology compareable to such of other religions of that time.

Zwingi was the predessor of Calvin in the Swiss reformation.
He had many similar thoughts to Luther and later before he finished his work Calvin took over and continued his work and brought many of his , at the time very radical, opinnions and changes.
I am not saying Calvin was doing wrong but I disagree with some of his teachings.


So you think there is universal morale?

If every human has the rule of never killing anyone then why do we have wars and why did some cultures support cannibalism?
Thieves and rapists exist and not all of them are sick or unknowing.

I am not saying you are wrong but this kind of things are difficult and problematic.
And I can't say to have any better solutions than any of you in this kind of matters.

There's some pretty fucked up things in there, indeed. But, was all this done in the name of God? OK, the laws were pretty strict, but it was a different time, the people were different from how we are now. And lots of these laws were made undone by Jesus' sacrifice.
And I wouldn't call the Bible stories mythology.


Yes I know who Zwingli was, but I can't remember anything about him related to Calvin. That's what I'm gonna find out


Yes, again to some extent. These morales can be broken by "greater goals". I mean, I know alot of friendly Chinese people, who would just as easily and smiling finish me off if their government would say so.


An individual murder is something else than taking someone down in a war. In that case, a few leaders who will never see the actual battlefield send away lots of people, and in that case, you have to kill to survive. I forgot mentioning survival, it can preceed moral rules.


No?


True