Lets continue our most agressive discussion here.



I can't remember where did I say he was.



Why do you have to? Isn't it simply a bit crazy to you everytime praying works it is thanks to a superhuman being and everytime it doesn't it is not his fault?

The whole existance breaks the idea of a perfect and absolutely good god and that is a logical fact.



Well this was just for sorting out the differences of religion and a science called philosophy.



My parents and my sister and I are in papers lutheran christians (well my father ain't no more)
And the theories are all but my very own. They motsly are something I have gathered to match up on my morale.



I am still not trying to prove anyone wrong. I don't care what you believe in I just care what do you think about things and more importantly HOW do you think.



So here are a few things I would like you to answer:




I will add things on better time...

And if you don't want to have this conversation then you don't have to listen to me or to answer.

All right, so let's continue.

First, you DON'T HAVE TO. I don't agree about this "you have to" part. Believe in whatever you want, but I'll still claim that what I believe in is true. But this other part with the prayer isn't crazy. You have to pray from your heart, truly believing in God and his powers, so your prayer will work. And you have to pray for something you really need, or how else should I say that. When "the prayer works" as you said, it is thanks to God. The miracle couldn't happen by itself. And when it doesn't work, there's always a reason.
Speaking of "the whole existence", WHO THE HELL YOU THINK MADE THAT "EXISTANCE" IF NOT A PERFECT AND ABSOLUTELY GOOD GOD?! How can that be a logical fact? How did everything appear once, in your opinion? Who made us, Earth, universe?! And now you say that idea of God breaks the existence. It holds it, it doesn't break it.


Here's the answer on that question:


And here is what will I say on that:

Differences between religion and science excist and they are big, but I, with my philosophy, can see some connections. Speaking of aliens and God, if aliens excist, they can be made only by God, just like us humans. They would be...Ehh, how should I say... Some other sort of humans. Material beings that live and die, just like us. And God is... a kind of supernatural power (a bad term for that, I know, but...), he isn't material thing like everything we can see around us, so it's only possible that he made all this. And everything couldn't have appeared by itself!


You have your theory and no one should force you to believe in something else. But I, as a Christian, show you my theory, I mean our, Christians' theory, so you could see one point of view on many things. You must confess that you don't have enough arguments to prove that your theory is the right one, because, first of all, how did you come here? How did this Earth come to this space? How did the whole Universe come here, to something that we could call "existence"? You've probably noticed that everything on the world has it's start, just like it's end. How did all this start? Who made all of this if not God?

And, what do you mean by this "I just care what do you think about things and more importantly HOW do you think."? Is there something wrong with our way of thinking?


God must be good, because he made me, you, Earth, LIFE. You probably wouldn't be here if he wasn't good. And he must be powerful if he was able to make it all. So, what are your arguments to prove opposite?

Look, I don't want to argue about this. Everyone can believe in whatever they want. I'm a Christian and I stick to what I believe in. I have the arguments and theories and I say them here. I just don't want someone to try to convince me in something else. And don't get me wrong, neither do I want to convince you in something you don't believe in. I just had to say what I think because we started this discussion.

I'm not reading all this yet, but if you're too agressive, you'll go to hell. I'm just saying.

And you're probably right... But I don't think I'm too aggressive (yet)

I didn't say that you HAVE TO BELIEVE... I said, if you believe, you MUST believe with all the meaning of the word... None order you to believe, it's your choice....



You said, that the GOD is for those who can't explain same things and have no answers about it. And I said for example the aliens... I can't explaind and I have no answer for them... That doesn't show that the GOD is an Alien because I can't explain them...



Why do you care about it?? Anything I will say, you will find it wrong.. So, why are you care of them?? To make up summarise your theories?

-Mayhem- you actuarlly started this discussion... And I don't know how much sense it makes to continue it... And, PLEASE, stop all those alien talks.... God and aliens CAN'T be in any sort of connection...
Only one thing...

The first question I've already answered, so I'll start with the second one.

NOTHING makes other religions wrong!!! I've NEVER said that! I just know the most facts of my religion so I have the arguments to claim it's right! Everyone believes in what he wants!!! I believe in one Orthodox, Christian God and I say it's him who made and controls the whole world. Someone else believes that is some other God and everyone has the right to believe in their own God. But you have to choose something and believe in something. I believe in this.

3.I do believe he created it, because it had to appear here somehow, and NOT BY ITSELF, because EVERY SINGLE MATERIAL THING was created by something or someone! God is not BEING, he's a... "force". I don't know how else to call that. I mean, every "being" is material thing, and God is not. And I can know it was created by him because there's no other explanation how everything became. If he is evil, we wouldn't have the lives. We wouldn't be created at all. We couldn't choose between the good and bad path in our lives. ANYTHING.

4. On Bible? Well... Logically thinking, there's no other explanation of the world we live in, so I think it's true.

1. Yes, His is Good and Powerful more than you can't imagin... Because He helps me (and all the people, and you are included on the list, beyond that you don't believe in Him). And He didn't proof me that he is Bad or Evil, but exactly the opposite...

2. Because the other religions haven't got PROOFS but we have.. We have angels, saints and more other HOLY. My name is Andreas, and many times I saw the Saint Andreas in my dreams and gives me courage.... And He was exactly as our religion know Him on pictures... So, if he wasn't real, who is he? Also, we have got many HOLY things like the bones of the Saints (which are too real than your imagination). We have got pictures and we pilgrim them. The other religions what they have?? Only a "GOD" and they believe on him, nothing else... I don't want to blame the other religions, but I am trying to support my religion

3. Because, if that was an evil thing, all these millions of years that the world created, we will not be here.... If it is an evil thing, it will not leave us to doing anything GOOD we want, but only BAD things... So yes, I think the good GOD created the earth

4. The HOLY books "Bible", "old testament" and "New Testament" are the history of the Orthodox Christianism... Anything you want to know, about the christian religion you will find it on these books...

This is one view of things. I said the same for first, third and fourth question, I answered the same, and for the second question, I was more tolerant with my answers. I won't judge any religion, only stick to what I believe in.

In my quote (whoever it was from) it was said you have to thats what I quoted.

Heart just pumps blood. And if this has something to do with emotion then how about those whose brains underfunction in emptions? are they condemned never to pray succesfully?
If this god is absolutely good then why does it have us crawling and praying for its help. If he would be be absolutely good and allpowerful he would help without us asking him to.
Your idea of praying just reminds me of begging.

Then we have this legendary mind game.

I god is both allpowerful and absolutely good then why is there pain?
If he is absolutely good he would have created aworld without it and if he is allpowerful he could have done it.

Our world is not perfect so why would there be a creator who would be.

And then we have the classic "can god create a rock so heavy he can't lift it?"



Scientists have dozens of theories and ven the big bang theory has critics.
But I trust their theories a lot more than the ones people have been told since those re the ones history has proved to eventually end up being wrong.

Actually it is a fact that the world will end up being one single mass. (This is from our physics class) That is since entropy is always trying to decrease and life on earth has very high entropy level.



So you are a dualist.
You believe there are two separate substances and you agree with Descartes as you think there is material and Spirit.
The problem of his theory was that those two substances are too different to actually be in contact or to have an impact on oneanother.



That is exactly what I am trying say about the difference of philosophy and religion.
I don't have to know an answer to our problems but I can't just make one up.

The point in this however is that whatever might be the answer at least we know for sure what it isn't.

I am not trying to say I am right and I have the answers. I am just saying there is a chance no one still has any answers.



No I am just trying to keep you calm since really I don't want this to be a fight but a converstaion and in this kind of personal area as religion the borderline is easily crossed.
(and even though I might be an annoying idiot speaking rubbish I will always be your hammerfall forum member discussing great music with you guys )



I already brought out a few points about this.
But why is he good?
Why couldn't we be created by a demon that betrays us and wants to watch us suffer?



And the same goes for you.

I wasn't saying god is for those but religion overall.
Why do you need holy books with hundereds of pages of how should you live and explanations of supernatural.

Aliens are a whole another thing.
Yet at least Einstein would say that no alien will ever come to earth. Or in case they would it would almost millions of years at the speed of light to travel to earth from the closest planet with possibility to life.


I am studying philosophy and psychology and those two deal with human mind. I really like seeing your arguments since I really don't get to hear them very often.


And just as you could find me wrong.

Descartes thought that we can't know anything for sure except the existance of our very own mind.



The first time I mentioned aliens was on this post.
The rest were quotes from your posts.