I'm not all that important, so when I die I think I will just be dead. A memory at best.

But someone who don't believe in GOD, means that he thinks that he Is not real

There is no logic in that!
You obviously don't have any knowledge about the other religions out there.
You just don't see other options around you.

Oh and no one of us can know anything about the actual world or ourselves.
(thanks to Berkley and Descartes)

Well answer this: Does God believe in himself and who created God?

(sorry but it seems to come back to this since some of you don't seem to get the point in not believing in some unlogical God being)

God is GOD... None created Him. You said that you read the bible.... If you really did that, you saw that GOD haven't got a begin... He was always there! And you can't understand some things which they have no explanation...
So if you don't understand something (I am talking to everybody, not only to you) our religion says that:

Gefsasthe ke Idate

That means, if you don't understand COME TO SEE
And you will see GOD's power !!

Why would I believe that?
And if people say it is logical there is something that all began of then why is there a God and how can he exist before he created everything.
This is not matter of unrelieable traditions or beliefs this is about pure always reliable way of logic that has never failed.
You seem to heavily rely on authority. You just believe it just becauseyou think that thats how it is.

Nietzsche thought it is every single individuals responsibility to think things through before adopting them.
Think of the Nazis. They did what an authority said and millions of Jews died. You may not do anything considered bad but you are taking the same risk in blindly following authorities. We may accept them but only after seeing why they are worth accepting.
Now you can call that sceptical piece of shit but I consider that to be something a wise person does.

If someone really after long thinking things through comes to the point of believing in something I don't I still respect that. Infact I respect that greatly and a lot more than someone who agrees with me but only does that because others do too.


You have to understand That I do know. You are seeing things black and white and refuse to accept the other options just because in the world you see there is nothing but what you are used to see.

Why not?

And as I said, if you don't believe, so GEFSASTHE KE IDATE ( COME TO SEE )

Thats not the question.
I had some of my core ideas in that piece of text so I would really apreciate if everyone read it and we wouldn't have to argue so much anymore.

Well, this is what you wrote before:


I know, being sceptical means BELIEVING in that stuff... But just as I said somewhere before (at least I think I said that), religion and that stuff you call superstition are different.
Yeah, I was afraid that you never let your imagination take charge of you at least just for a while, so you don't know what I'm talking about But the same as this stuff, you have the border between that and reality, and maybe religion is the same as that for you, and no one is gonna judge you for that... Just as no one is judging me for believing they're not the same and there's God...



I'm not talking about the nature or anything... I said what would mankind do to itself if it'd be proven that we simply... Exist-with no beginning, no end. I'm not saying that God prevents thunderstorms, as you said.

Not the only, but one sure is. It doesn't depend on only one person, like you, but on MANKIND.

What is the thing that makes you go on with your life and try to survive? What stops you from killing yourself when something in your life goes wrong? Answer this, PLEASE, because I wonder...

Yeah, maybe it wouldn't be bad, but WHY every living human being doesn't do that, when everyone's gonna die? Answer this, too.

To keep us going.

I'd really like to say something on this... If you, for example, believe in Big Bang theory as the one where it all begins... That very first atom, who created IT? And what caused all those reactions in it, so it exploded? If you explain this to me, I'll try to explain who creared God. God has no beginning and no end. Even if we say that someone created him, who created that one?
That's what I always wonder, since I was born... How did it all really start...

I don't think I can vote. I'm undecided. Somehow I think something like heaven can't exist. When I think about what happens when I will die someday, the thought of having a life after death is comforting me and deaths seems to be less scary.
But when I think about other people who died, I believe there is no heaven and life after dead. Only two months ago my great-grandfather died and a few years ago died a good friend in age of 22. I don't believe they have a better life or something like that. They are forever gone but I keep them alive in my thoughts and my heart. Maybe heaven is on earth but we just don't see it, maybe heaven is in our hearts?

On the other side, perhaps God is real and he has a huge storage were he collect the souls of dead people and whenever a new child is born, the child gets a soul. Is God a recycler? I think it's a nice thought.

By others I did not mean you but all people in general.


Well lets just say "Believing in some magical world after death where you will meet yall your firends and everyone will live happily ever after" seems a bit childish and unconvincing. I have thought these things over many many times over and over again.


err... well lets just say true nature of mankind means something else than nature.


But if it is not the only thing keeping us from going crazy then why coudln't we live without it?
I can't really see your logic here.


I already answered this in the other topic. I Enjoy life.
BUt the thought is just waking you up. We think that of course we have to survive but have you ever wondered why do we think so. And because religion says so is not a logical excuse for then we would have died already.


I'll be back again. Have to go.

Don't touch anything!

E:1 back:


Thats the question: Why do we live? Thats partially what I asked.


So you are saying in the world with no problems fath has made us remove the problems that once existed?
What would stop us from going if there were no problems.
Well let me see how to put this... It has been said that religion just reflects the problems of society. It is a tool to keep us from losing hope in life. But if there are no problems then there is no need for religion either. This is why many communist countries ban religion. But really isn't there at leats a bit of truth to it. Never have the rulers been religious because of the religion itself but just the political reasons to keep the people happy. Even Hitler and Stalin both used religion and thousands of other important historical figures. So do we really need religion?



I know but who created the one who created it.
And first of all the big bang can't logically have been the beginning of existance. How can something explode if nothing exists yet.


Oh and during the big bang atoms did not even exist yet. The simple atom cores formed about 2 minutes after big bang so 14000000000 years ago. All materia was in one location and then all energy and light and radiation started to spread. The first light that left this so called centre of the universe still hasn't reached the end of the universe.


And how do you KNOW that. You just say it because thats how you see it. But what is this belief based on. Why do you assume it is so?


exactly this is my point.
Why do we think we were created by something? Because we don't know and we place an authority and just decide it has to be so because god says so and he says so because he does.