Because the things written above are concerning humans only, but God is above us all, things said above don't refer to relations between us and Him at all.

I'll reply to them in horizontal order:

1: Yes, He did. But it isn't necessary anymore. Nowadays you get baptized, whether you are a girl or a boy (I was never baptized by the way).

2: What? Which conditions?

3: This is more something for the free will-topic.

4: That means 30% land (I know, there's also volcanoes and such, but there's enough space)

5: So the reason that I believe in God is because I'm not smart enough?

6: Abortion is nothing short of one of the foulest kinds of murder. A child is a gift from God, even if it ends up in a miscarriage. I don't know why it happens, but who am I to judge my Creator?

7: I'd say the survivors have every reason to praise God for surviving the disaster.

8: There's no words to describe how tasteless that one is, you should be ashamed of yourself Mayhem (if that's your real name).

9: There are ways for animals to become fossils very quickly.

Lets just say that I am not impressed.

Well before replying I would loike to ask one question (this goes for you all)
Why do people believe in God? (In general) It being the truth cannot be considered proof.


Well why was it necessary in the first place? Originally it was a mark to sign Gods people so a cultural tradition. But did God create foreskin for us to cut off and why does it cause problems then?


Obeying his word. Throwing someone into hell and eternal pain for doing sins doesn't seem loving to me! On the other hand if he is the perfect being then all that he did must be good. He slaughtered thousands of Innocents in the OT so why shouldn't we do as the perfect being did?


But if earth was created for humans then what is the salt water for? And my own addition. If the world is created for us then why are there hundreds of millions of galaxies out there. This eventually leads to my one of my main arguments: "Why is God restricted to the ways and thoughts of humanity if he wasn't created by it?" It's a bit more complicated thought than that but it is almost impossible to translate it in English.


We all think we are smart. But there are many kinds of intelligence. I believe it's more about culture than genetic intelligence.


If you can't judge your creator that doesn't mean you couldn't question him being your creator.I won't go any further with abortion right now but later.


And those who didn't survive it should have every reason to blame him then? If one out of 1000 survives is it 999 killed or 1 spared?


I didn't make that pic. Denying the facts doesn't make it more "Tasteful". Why would God allow this if Jews were his chosen people?


That is not a good argument. There are ways to determine their age.


Now that pic was a funny pic but I understand thatit offends you but I am not here to insult you. I just want you to think.

*4: it refers to the habitable area.

Andreas (I'll never get used to call you Andre), I totally agree.

You can try


Which was not my intention, nor did I expect such a thing to happen.


I can't speak for all people, merely for myself: He helped me through my life so far, even when I totally rejected Him. If it wasn't for him, I would've been dead a long time ago probably.


We don't have to cut it off anymore. You actually answered your own question, it was necessary to mark God's people.


It's not a condition. It's what I want because God loves me. You have to see Him as a Father, because that's what He is.


Indeed, but it's only fair being punished for your sins if you're not genuinely sorry for committing them.


He never slaughtered thousands of innocents.


Maybe it has something to do with this world being able to live on physically. Something biological, I don't know.


Why not? He is the Creator, so He makes everything right.


He is not restricted to the ways and thoughts of humanity. You might think so because you're questioning Him in a way that seems rational to you, a human. But just that you and I can't see beyond our human thought patterns, does not mean He is restricted by ours.


Questioning leads to judgement. What else would you try to question God?


The latter.


Same kind of question: why would God allow atheist venting their opinions? I don't know and I don't need to know, He knows what is good.


Which aren't 100% reliable. I know a christian geographist who made a theory about the earth layers, fossils and such, based on what happened in the Bible. And what gives? A theory that does not leave any questions (which leads me to think that it's not a theory, but facts), this contrary to the evolution theory.


No it wasn't


It doesn't necessarily offend me. It's offending towards my Creator. It doesn't make me angry, it actually makes me sad.


And I want you to think too. Do you really think that the way of life you have chosen is the right way? You're still alive, for which you can thank God. There's still time for you to ask God for forgiveness for everything you have done wrong. Just for clarification: I'm not saying that anything you ask here is wrong, neither am I to judge what you did wrong or not. If God gives you to see what you have done wrong in your life, don't run from Him, but ask for His help and forgiveness. If you're truly sorry, He will forgive you and help you. That's His message to you.

Why?
Lets put it this way. If he only loved ews back then how could he change his mind if he was still perfect. Isn't it obvious times and people changed and taht changed their image of God? I mean the people who wrote the things about God and told the stories of him changed and that changed the way they told the things and that changed the whole idea of a God?

And then to put it into your own words: Why should you question your maker, or why should you remove something he has given to you. Isn't the existance of foreskin a better sign of Gods will about it than the words written down by men? If he didn't want some people to have foreskin why wouldn't he have removed it himself from them and made it painlessly without risk of infections.


So you are simply Fatalistic and think God guides you? That may change our discussion to Fatalism and Determinism.


Why do you refer to him as a being such as Father if you don't think of him as a material being? Can a perfect invisible all-knowing, allmighty being be a father? And why did he make us imperfect and won't help us and creates all things he shouldn't want to create if bible indeed was his will.


But why are there sins? Why can't we do something? I think that just reflects human morale (That is not dependant on you but your culture)


So he created people who have no right to live? Think of all those small children who perished. Only because they had done something bad to another group of people who just happened to have their own mass-killer god with them. Isn't the Jew god just a perfect reflection of their culture? Different types of music, PLays, Books and thoughts are born under certain influence of your surroundings. Why wouldn't all religions be born that way too.


And why is that?
What logical proof is there about it. Even nature makes mistakes.
That would also mean everything that has happened is his intention including you doing sin or you getting killed no matter how hard you tried to follow Gods orders. Doesn't seem to make sense to me.


Taking up ones lack of capacity of understanding is actually number 4 on the official list of bad arguments. I could just as well say the world was created when aliens flushed their toilet above earth and the say it has to be so because you can't prove me wrong.


You can judge him if he really isn't your creator and if you don't take rational proofs to why he is your creator you might just as well be wrong. If you try and realize you can't question your creators existance you can't then judge him either.


That was a Rhetorical Question.
There was once a flood in some city in Portugal that flooded the whole city. Church then said that was because there was so much prostitution in the city. All the Brothels were in the moutains and were spared. Doesn't seem God cares, or better doesn't seem nature cares because it is not driven by a mind.


Then how do you even know there is any sense in believing in him?

I have to go but I will be back on this

Continuing...

How do you even know God is good?
Why couldn't he be an evil demon instead?


That argument would make this whole conversation needless. We can't be sure about what the bible says or even that there has been humans a hundred years ago. Skepticism pretty much makes all sience and pseudoscience as well as all religions uncertain. Unless you don't want to take that up we will have to just trust other definitions of Knowledge.


That theory breaks at least 2 or 3 requirements of scientifical research.
What do you personally know of this theory? For me it seems you and this geographist aren't being too objective. There are lots and lots of terrible pseudoscientifical researches of world done only to fit Christianity into the scientifical image of world. For example Atlas of Ceationism. These researches are also funded by Discovery foundation which break another requirement of proper science.


well if you would present a pic that makes fun of my way of thinking I would propably think of it as a funny pic since facts hurt the most.


And in your opinnion he is also my creatpr but for some reason it only makes me laugh.


Oh you mean think and study philosophy in an university?


How could you possibly know that? Tell me that by using Platos classical definition of knowledge and I will change my ways.
There is nothing in this world that indicates a God would exist. It just seems you lack the understanding of other points of view. And I don't mean my own but other religions for example. You could just as well believe in many other religions with your arguments but you don't seem to have chosen Christinaity but it has seemed to have been chosen FOR you.


I don't see any reason to do that and I don't see any reason why one would have to. If he indeed exists it was his fault for me not beliveving in him. He should have given better proofs or then he shouldn't have given human beings the ability to logical thinking since that pretty much destroys his own existance.


And this is what we Finns consider Huuhaa.
I can't help it but that is simplyt ridiculous. People seem to believe in what they want to believe in no matter what the reality is.
First of all that was just you message to me. Secondly if you truly think you know something believing and non-believing haven't been able to solve in the past 3000 years then please give your proper logical agruments and proove us wrong.
I would end my post with a Nietzsche quotation but I have toget going again.

You and me can think we do what we want. But God already knew about it long before. I'm not a passive person if that's what you mean.


Religion can be an outing of culture. Lots of people say that about all religions. Still, christianity is widespread, in EVERY culture, even if people can get executed for that.


If I'd be killed, it's not a bad thing. Because there's life after death.


Hey, I already said it's beyond my comprehension too. It's not an argument, I'm sorry if it looked that way.


That's what's so great about christianity. There's nothing that can make it uncertain.


He was an independent professor. He looked what was written in the Bible about the Great Flood, and applied that to how earth layers and such work. Terms like runaway subduction passed by, it's been a while. I can find the man's name if you like.


I will NEVER make fun of your way of thinking. It rather makes me sad.


Makes me even sadder.


There's nothing wrong about that, your study doesn't matter. It's the way how you handle it, that matters. And why add "in a university"? Does it make you smarter? At least were at the same level then.


I will give you something better at the end of my post.


At the contrary. Everything around us indicates that God exists.


Luckily, it only seems that way. It's fairly easy for me to reason from other people's point of view. I can have a high level of empathy.


Exactly! Now do you understand my gratitude towards God?


So the question remains: do you think I believe in God because I can't think logically?


No, it's God's message, it was my duty to pass it on.


I tried to keep it short, but look what happened
There's something you need to know: the discussions we had before were your point of view vs. what I considered the christian point of view. Defending my roots, so to speak. But nowadays, I'm not defending my roots, but what I believe. There's no distance between "my side" and myself anymore, for which I'm unspeakably happy.

Still, we have to do with prosecution. In older ages, christians have been prosecuted and threatened with violence. Nowadays, it's way more insidious. The general opinion wants us to believe more and more that christianity is for some weirdos who aren't that bad, just a bit rediculous. This by creating definitions of reasoning and logic. It's way more difficult to fight that than to deal with the thought you can be killed for what you believe. Death can be less frightening than being a social outcast.

And my gift to you today: the Heidelberg Catechism. I'm sure it's translated to Finnish, so you might like to read it. You can also read the summary on wikipedia, but if you read it completely, it answers all your questions I didn't answer.

Little addition: considering the long replies we type, it might be a better idea to continue discussions like this in a chat or something. We have to be kind for our fellow forumers

Ok so You indeed are Deterministic.
We will be back on that.


So the one that has most followers around the world is the right one?
The spreading is caused by active work on spreading it. For example Buddhism isn't being spread at all and they don't have any missionaries.


IfI'd be killed, it wouldn't be a bad thing. Because there isn't life after death.


Well Skepticism can. It can rationally prove that you can't even know that you have ever read any word written in the bible. The whole definition of Knowledge had to be changed because of this.

What about all those who died on the other side of the world after the early church was formed. Were they thrown in hell as well? And would that be justified. If they got into heaven without knowing anything about God wouldn't it be the best to abandon Christianity and hide it from following generations so that they wouldn't need to follow the bible to get to heaven.


Go ahead and please do.


It would not really matter.


What I wanted to say is that this is what philosophy and rational thinking may lead to. Mythology view on the world was abandoned because of philosophy and it has also shaped our world to be what it is. Our modern values come from 2 places: philosophy and media. Bible is excluded because it's morale was there before it was created and most of the things Jesus said had been in some form presented 500 years earlier. On the other hand lots of our modern values contradict bible. Slaves for example. Books of Moses say man can sell his daughter as a slave.


Does it really. It may seem Earth is such an ideal place to live that it had to have been created but thinking of the vastess of the Universe it is even quite propable that it is so. There are 80 billion planets in the Milkyway alone that have proper living conditions.


You know the For means someone else has chosen that your religion FOR you.
That means you don't really question the religion you are given and could just as well believe in ancient myths.


No. All humans think logically. The basic rule of logic is X=X which is considered by some as "built in" ability carrying in our genes.
Yet with deductive thinking we might all be just as well skeptics. The God of christianity just happens to have lots of logical contradictions. The accuracy in which a certain god is defined affects how easy it is to prove wrong. I couldn't possibly prove a God wrong that only had been defined as a God.


I really don't know how are things in there considering this but I would say Christians have killed quite a lot of people too. In war religion is secondary and for some really weird reason god is always on our side.
I don't think violent prosecutors have anything to do with logic.

And I would really want YOU to answer why there is a God and why is he good. Why can't the world be created by some evil being? and one more thing: Why do people have religions?



Oh thanks: I have a gift for you too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion