I really have no time or patience to read everything. But I accidentally saw one thing that I'm interested in and I'd like to reply on this:



We only KNOW about our world. My own opinion is that no one will ever know what else God made, how many galaxies with planets with any kind of life on them, how many worlds, how many universes. We can know only about this our world, this Earth, and I think we should stick to it because there's technically no way for us to find out about anything "beyond". That's some kind of my own theory, I'm really not sure if Bible or anything says anything about such things, sorry.

Yes it pretty much contradicts bible in some ways.
And on top of that God didn't tell us about those things did he?
This is what I meant by "God being restricted by Humanity". He doesn't seem to know anything we don't and he doesn't seem to do anything either. The god of bible is clearly creation on human imagination

It contradicts, and although I'm pretty much religious, I don't let myself stick SO CLOSE to it or anything, without leaving myself a bit of freedom to say "you never know". I hope this doesn't offend other Christians here.

Our brain isn't made to understand such things, even if he told us. We aren't meant to know about anything beyond the world we live in and we don't need anything that's beyond.
He knows. But he doesn't tell us. As I said, the things we were supposed to know, we do, and the Bible says everything, and we're not supposed to know any more. It's beyond our abilities to understand or so.

Nope. Most widespread doesn't meant the most popular one.


Meh. Don't believe that.


Funny, I asked myself the same question when I was a child. It comes down to not questioning God.


I will post it here as soon as I found it. I have to visit my grandma for that.


Indeed. There was more to that, the only thing I can remember is the way people had to handle their slaves. Good treatment and such.


That's the weird thing. The way I was raised was of no influence of how I think now. It was God who opened my eyes for the Bible.


In the name of christianity maybe. For christians, it's not justifiable.


Violence was the first tool against christianity. Nowadays it's logic.


Hehe, I don't know why God is there, but I don't mind. I also don't know why He is good. These are very weird questions for me. And the world isn't created by an evil being because an evil being can't make good things. And in the end: I don't follow religion, I follow God.


I bet mine is shorter Anyway, this guy pretends science and religion are opponents. But I love science. With every discovery, we can see more of how great God made everything.

Well you can't show me a part in the Bible that says "there are no other galaxies" and such. And what's the importance anyway? And: God knows everything, so that probably means he knows things we don't But nobody ever made a convincing theory of why God is created by human imagination.

So you are assuming there is an invisible creator out there who didn't make us capable of understanding him. What are ones reasons to assume things like this? Saying we can't understand him seems like wriggling out ouf the snakes teeth.

What are these assumptions based on? You might say bible for example but it says a lot of things you don't think belongs to your religious view. Pshychologically when one who believes in the bible reads it he picks up those parts that he agrees with and subconsciously ignores those that are against him. This is not atheistic view on things this is purely scientifical. And then choosing bible as the right holy book. There were thousands of religious books written those days, before and after. None of the gods mentioned in those have done anything but all of them were believed in. Christianity may seem the one and only real religion where you live but go visit a muslim country some day. Or even a buddhist country.

Whats wrong with religions is that they don't ever question Authority. That wouldn't be a bad thing. If you could succeed in that you would make your beliefs even stronger. Right now you are happy with what you have as if you were afraid to look deeper. often the prroves to why there is a god go around like this:
1. Bible says god exists
2. God doesn't lie
3. Bible is the word of god
so: God exists!!!!
Now you should be able to tell me why that is not a proper logical observation.
Or this one:
1. Jesus said God exists
so: God must exist

Since wth the same logic I could just as well say something that would crush that.
1. Dawkins said that there is no God
so: there is no god

Then what makes the most widespread one the right one?


DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT SKEPTICISM IS !?
And just saying believe that or not believe that is not valid argument. Its not convincing at all. Give me arguments why not. This is not matter of common sense this is intelligent discussion (at least it should be)


Yes but why can't you wuestion god? That is just silly. No that is insane. If I would say that you are surrounded by flying invisible pink lizards and that flying spaghetti monsters created the world you would propably think "Is he crazy" or "Why?" you couldn't just say "ok thats the way it's got to be!" If you said that "no thats not right" and I could just say "Flying Spaghetti monsters cannot be questioned" Would you accept that? If I wrote then a book about the Green Lizards and started worshipping them and then I would get believers all around the world would you then say "Oh you must be right!" Why would this be any different from Christianity.
I am now just trying to make it clear to you by some examples.


Actually no. Slaves had rights for the first time in Ancient Greece. About thousand years AFTER the OT
If bible is the truth and to be followed then why don't we have slaves? Why aren't we stoning anyone?
And you say Christian prosecution is bad. I'd say being a true fundamentalist christian is a bit worse.


And again. No reasoning with that.
Psychologically your surroundings influence you as well as your genes. If you think God has contacted you then why couldn't it be because you were rasied in such an environment that lead you to it. We learn all our lifes Authorities as a child. You may think that way but can you really think objectively? Can you ever jump out of your person and perfectly neutrally rate your beliefs?


Those people pretty much thought they were going to heaven just as you do. How can you know you are not making the smae mistake and having wrong beliefs. Your homecountry got it's religion in the same way. They were told something and they started believing in it.


Oh saying that logic is the enemy of Christianity is propably not what you wanted to say in case you even know what logic is.
Logic is undeniable. You need logic to believe in god and you need logic to read a bible and you need logic to think, to eat, to pray, to talk or even to defend your faith. Logic is valid thinking. X=X is logic. If you don't use that you won't know that God is God or that a bible is a bible. Deductive logic is always undeniably right. like this:
1. All men are humans
2. Andreas is a man
so: Andreas is a human
Inductive thinking however can go wrong like this:
1. My ferrari is fast
2. my friends ferrari is fast
so: all ferraris are fast

And then on Violence: Violence was the reason why Christianity got it's base of followers. Persecution of early Christians in Rome convinced people. If no one hadn't cared they wouldn't have attracted any attention. When they died for their beliefs theyhad plenty of it. When they couldnät kill all the christians Galenius decided to let it be and then Constantine decided to make a brilliant political move and use that determination for his own good. He realized that people were easy to control with it.


and now you are starting to think like Descartes. Why couldn't evil create good and how do you know good even exists.
And then on the other hand if you don't know why there is a God then why to believe in him.
If you donät follow religion but God isntead then how do you know what to do and what to follow?
If you say that he will tell you then our view on God will be quite disasterous because thn a psychopath who kills 50 people could just as well say that he did it because God told him to.


Well science does contradict Christinitys views on the world and at least makes them very very difficult to explain.

You propably don't have any idea what you just said.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
You seem to have lack of knowledge on some fields so would you please read this page even briefly to actually understand what you are up against.


The point is: There is nothing in bible that a man living in those days couldnät have made up.


You seem to be skipping a lot of questions. If some are too difficult to answer or otherwise unpleasant then just please tell that and I will try to clear them up a bit.

Yes, I'm skipping lots of questions, because they will lead to nowhere. The same can be said about this whole discussion I'm afraid. I just pick out the ones that really ask for a reply. None of your questions is too difficult or inconvenient for me to answer. Furthermore, our long posts make me loose the overview sometimes. I think talking in real life with you would be a lot more convenient, or something like a chat. Then you will see I'm willing to answer ALL of your questions, even if they seem weird to me.


OK, as a jurist, I have to indicate that I used the word "convincing"

One more thing: it probably occured to you that I'm a christian And you know what this means? I have to love my neighbour like I love myself. And from an atheist point of view, what's wrong with people like me? What harm are we doing? I'm a law-obeying citizen, and when I see I can help people, then I try to help them. I think the best question would be: what's your problem with christians/christianity?

PS: I'm skipping most of your questions now, I guess I'm just lazy at the moment. Maybe you can also ask some questions to me, like I did just now?

So if I made up a religion that believes in invisible flamingos who had told the mankind to be perfect then no one could never have any problems in believing in us because we wouldn't cause any problems? We are not discussing consequences. They don't change the facts.

William James had a weird theory about the truth. He said that anything that is useful is true. (really rough version of his words)
He also said that God exists because he has certain social use.
Thats beacuse in a materialistic world defining morale is quite difficult.

Ockham's Razor would advise you not to claim to believe in God. Presuming something more complicated than is necessary is not that smart according to him. He thought the logical choice would always be the simpliest one. Yet I don't agree with him.

If you haven't decided your personal beliefs with thinking them over it is like selling your vote at the election to the highest bidder.

I got carried away really bad this time