I understand. That's why I'm not in any of these discussions anymore. I let myself several times to get into it and in the middle of those I find myself not knowing what was I talking about at all. That's when I stopped.

Now before going back to my reply to Andreas I have to comment this.

Actually to make it simplier I will divide it to pieces.


So you bring in the meaning of life? It is quite difficult to use it to back up ones point for then you would have to define it and I can tell you it is not easy. (well a lot of people settle for creating happiness but I can show you that it is wrong in case you want to know why)


Well I think so too but that is the result of a thinking process. (Materia as it is can't be destroyed so how could it have been created. I believe materia is either eternally existing or that the time is cyclic. I might give another answer another day.)
If ones thinking process leads to conclusions like this then thinking can't be useless but instead it has just proven it's worth.


Thinking hurts doesn't it. That is the point where most people stop thinking in. Yet Philosophical matters might seem irrelevant or useless but in the end they define all our actions.
To make things simple (I really hope you read this) Even though we simply believe in things ( I for example believe that sciencentific method leads to truthful information of the world we live in and that there is no god and no spirit, only materia) But we choose what we believe in for a certain reason. We don't pick things we believe in randomly and thats why it is not inconsequential what we choose to believe in.

Now a few notes I think are very important for you to aknowledge:
1. Philosophy is not meaningless. It is behind your every action and every thought. The society you live in is like it is because of philosophy (Human rights, Democracy, Economy...) and it could just as well be different (Well compare it to Soviet Union which was based on different views of philosophers and especially Karl Marx). And the classic paradox of philosphy is that it can't be useless. If you can effectively and undeniably prove that philosophy is useless you have just used it and therefore proven that it is not useless (as you just could prove you point by using it).

2. Science is a reliable base for ones beliefs. Scientific method gives us information of the world as it is and it is used in understanding the world. It is quite ironic that some of you don't believe in scientific thinking and you express that by writing it using your computer to send that information to thousands online.
You live in a world of technology and science fixes our problems. Modern medicine can heal almost anything and for example the stem cell research will enable us to grow new organs. If I lose an arm I can grow a new one, if my heart is bad I can grow a new one. So at least science is useful.
Science is reliable because of many things. To make things short I took this list out of wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demarcation_problem):
-Reproducible. Makes predictions that can be tested by any observer, with trials extending indefinitely into the future.
-Falsifiable and testable. See Falsifiability and Testability.
-Consistent. Generates no obvious logical contradictions, and 'saves the phenomena', being consistent with observation.
-Pertinent. Describes and explains observed phenomena.
-Correctable and dynamic. Subject to modification as new observations are made.
-Integrative, robust, and corrigible. Subsumes previous theories as approximations, and allows possible subsumption by future theories. ("Robust", here, refers to stability in the statistical sense, i.e., not very sensitive to occasional outlying data points.) See Correspondence principle
-Parsimonious. Economical in the number of assumptions and hypothetical entities.
-Provisional or tentative. Does not assert the absolute certainty of the theory.


This is what grabbed my attention and I will get back to it later.
For now I will spare you of the rest of my thoughts.

A novel again. Whatever. But in fact, I did read this one and I have several things to say:

I'd like to hear more of your opinion on this matter because it always really intrigued me. But we should perhaps make another topic for it...

Nope. I didn't say it is USELESS to think about it, in fact, it is fun, but take a look at the "Let's Argue" thread and see what I just wrote there. Nope, in this case eyes hurt from reading these digital novels.

Like I said, check out "Let's Argue" thread.

Heheh, this is exactly why I like the philosophy. But that can also mean that we use it daily in almost everything we do and that we can use it for ANYTHING, to prove any opinion or fact. And we can, yes. Philosophy is pretty much "relative" thing.

I never denied science. We do need it to make everyday life easier. What was discovered by science it was and no one can deny it. My point is that science definitely can't discover and explain everything. Let's take this "scientific" view on the beginning of this world: big bang. Allright, let's take it as if it's possible that it happened. What was before that? We'll never know. And if science was able to explain everything there'd be nothing else to discover and things would become boring. I say that there is something more than just this material world science is able to explain. And another thing why I DON'T like the science is that it's going a bit too far. For example, right now I am sitting in front of the computer writing things online. But I do it just because the world is functioning like that today. I don't like this technology growing and developing more and more day by day, I think it leads to our self-destruction. How far can it go? I think things went a lot easier and more interesting before certain developments in science. It was good for it to develop to some point, but I think it went too far. Never mind, I'm going a bit off-topic.

I'd like to hear what can you say about this...

And before I get back to the discussion I would like to hear everyones comments on this video.
I am not meaning to offend anyone with this and I personally think this video is actually quite funny but what makes it so good is that it also hits the nail on the head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOfjkl-3SNE

Know that link, offers nothing new and misses any nail possible.

I really hate it when people give unsubstantiated statements to bash other views.

Tell me why is it not how the case is or why do you consider it to be bad. It clearly shows which parts of the bible it references to and we know the scientific improvents that are used in modern day life for example information about bacteria and especially bacteria, viruses and others as the cause of sickness instead of demons. I bet you wouldn't go to a prayer clinic if you got seriously ill but you would go to a hostpital instead. That is a sign of wishful thinking istead of true belief.

Did you not like it because it questions your faith in a way you can't respond to? I know that it serioiusly hurts but if the case was with any other thing than with religion (food, medicine, sports training etc.) people would give up on their previous ways because those things are related to evidence, science and reason (even in any day normal life of an individual with no training with them) You may discover that eating worms is not good because they taste bad or then you can eat worms becasue you Believe they are good for you.

Because this is just the same simple stuff all over again. If I would reply to this, there'd be no end.

Allright, just one: the thing about eating their own children (Deuteronomy 28:53): it's a threat for if people don't follow God's will, they will be starved by a siege, and be so hungry that they will eat their own children. The points made in the video are simple-minded and easily to be countered, but it would also require a lot of time, and I'm sorry, it's not worth it.


Please, this kind of questioning gets rather boring. As I said, those questions are far from unanswerable. But I have an offline life, so I won't go into that. I hate making long posts. It would be another case if someone asked me those questions in real life, which has happened before. Then I'm more than willing to talk. And I'm sure there enough Finnish people like me, so who knows...

Of course I believe to the other life. Whenever I kill an internet profile, I'll create a new one in an other forum or social network.

What further evidence do we need?

Every time my character dies in a computer game, I go on "second chance" or "play again" and it comes back. There, another solid evidence.